The proceedings are
reported in the language in which they were spoken in the
committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous
interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied
corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the
transcript.
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Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 9:00.
The meeting began at 9:00.
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Cyflwyniad,
Ymddiheuriadau, Dirprwyon a Datganiadau o Fuddiant
Introduction, Apologies, Substitutions and Declarations of
Interest
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[1]
Mike
Hedges: Bore da, good morning, everybody. Can I welcome
everybody to the first meeting of the Petitions Committee of this
fifth Assembly? Can I just remind everybody that they are welcome
to speak in either English or Welsh, and translation headsets are
available? There’s no need to turn off mobile phones or other
electronic devices, but please make sure they’re on silent
mode. It’s highly embarrassing when your phone goes off and
makes a noise halfway through a meeting. There are no apologies or substitutions.
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Deisebau Newydd y mae Gweinidogion wedi rhoi Ymateb Cychwynnol
Iddynt
New Petitions—with Ministerial
Responses
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[2]
Mike Hedges: So, we move on now to item 2: new petitions received
and initial responses from Ministers. Initial letters seeking the
views of the relevant Welsh Government Minister were sent under
arrangements agreed by the previous committee. Petition
P-04-685, ‘Basic Payment Scheme in
Wales—a Fairer, Regional Payment Model
Required’—this petition was submitted by Farmers for
Regional Payments and collected 32 signatures. The first letter was
sent to the Minister at the end of the fourth Assembly. A response
was received from the Deputy Minister. The Minister’s letter
is in the public papers for this meeting. A research brief on the
background to the issue is also in the public papers. What do we
want to do with it? Do we want to write to the new Cabinet
Secretary or do we want to close the petition as we’ve had a
reply from the previous Deputy Minister that has addressed the
issues it raises? Well, can I suggest that we close it, then, as it
has already been addressed by a reply from the previous Deputy
Minister, and they haven’t written back to us? Is that
agreed? Yes, no, maybe? Yes. Thank you.
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[3]
The next one is P-04-686, ‘Install a Traffic Lights System at
Cross Hands Roundabout’. A letter was sent to the Minister in
the fourth Assembly. A response has been received. They have made
no further comments. A research brief on the background issue is
also in the public papers. Do we want to write to the Cabinet
Secretary again to see if there’s any update on the position?
I suggest we write to the Cabinet Secretary to see if there’s
any update, for those people who know Cross Hands roundabout.
Okay.
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[4]
Item 2.3 is P-04-687, ‘Review of
Scalloping in Cardigan Bay’. Possible answers: if we’re
content with the Minister’s response, we can close it.
Otherwise we can write to the new Cabinet Secretary for Environment
and Rural Affairs outlining the committee’s concerns. Any
views? And they haven’t come back to us following the reply
from the Minister?
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[5]
Mr George: No, but we only very recently have told them that
this matter was on the agenda.
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[6]
Mike Hedges: Can we hold it until the next meeting, then? Just
note it now, hold it until the next meeting, and see if they do
come back to us. Yes? Is everybody happy with that? Yes.
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09:03
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Deisebau
Newydd Eraill
Other New Petitions
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[7]
Mike Hedges: Other new petitions: P-05-689, ‘Improvements to
the Railway Provision at Kidwelly’. A letter has been sent to
the Cabinet Secretary for the Economy and Infrastructure seeking
his views on the petition. So, shall we await the response from the
Cabinet Secretary? Yes.
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[8]
Resurfacing of the A40
Raglan–Abergavenny Road—
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[9]
Mr George: Sorry, just to mention that was one that
we—
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[10]
Mike Hedges: Oh, yes, we’re collecting the petition at 1
o’clock today.
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[11]
Gareth Bennett:
Which one is that?
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[12]
Mike Hedges: The one on Kidwelly—railway provision in
Kidwelly—at 1 o’clock.
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[13]
P-05-690, ‘Resurfacing of the A40
Raglan-Abergavenny Road’, which I think we are again
collecting today. Yes?
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[14]
Mr George: Yes, that’s at 12.40 p.m.
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[15]
Mike Hedges: At 12.40 p.m. And a letter will be sent to the
Cabinet Secretary seeking his views on the petition. Are we happy
with that?
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[16]
Mr George: Sorry, that was 2.30 p.m. not 12.40 p.m.
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[17]
Mike Hedges: At 2.30 p.m.—okay.
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[18]
Petition P-05-691, ‘A Fair Deal for
Forest Rallying in Wales’. That petition’s been
received. A letter will be sent, again, to the Cabinet Secretary,
and this is the one we’ll be collecting at 12.40
p.m.
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[19]
Mr George: And we’ve also had, since the papers were
produced, another letter from the petitioner, or an e-mail from the
petitioner, which is in front of you.
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[20]
Mike Hedges: Yes. Well, we’re doing what they ask,
aren’t we? We’re taking it up with the Minister and
we’re formally receiving the petition.
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[21]
Petition P-05-692, ‘Build an International Mother Languages
Monument at Cardiff Bay’; agree to send a letter to the
Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure seeking their
views.
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[22]
P-05-693, ‘Give Every Child in Wales the Meningitis B Vaccine
for Free’; send to the Cabinet Secretary for health and
well-being. Yes?
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[23]
P-05-694, ‘School Times an Hour Later’; write to the
Cabinet Secretary for Education. Yes?
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[24]
P-05-695, ‘Introduce Compulsory Mental Health Education in
Secondary Schools’; write to the Cabinet Secretary for
Education.
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[25]
P-05-654, ‘Objection to the Current Proposals for the
Designation of SAC's for Porpoises’, which I’m sure
everybody else knows more than I do about; write to the Cabinet
Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs for their view.
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[26]
P-05-697, ‘45000 Reasons Wales Needs a Dementia
Strategy’, which is the petition that we collected this
morning at 08:30; write to the Cabinet Secretary for health and
well-being.
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[27]
Those were the new ones. I think we probably won’t have as
many new ones in the future, but we’ve got three
months’ worth of new ones.
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09:06
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Y Wybodaeth Ddiweddaraf am Ddeisebau Blaenorol
Updates to Previous Petitions
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[28]
Mike Hedges: P-04-365, ‘Protect Buildings of Note on
the Mid Wales Hospital Site’: this was considered on 19
January, where they considered correspondence received from the
Brecon Beacons National Park and agreed to write to them again to
ask for an update on the situation. An update has been received.
Possible actions—. Well, this has been going on for four
years now and it does, really, fall under the—at least two
other people here have served on a council—it really does
fall within the council’s remit rather than the
Assembly’s. So, it could be said that this is now really a
matter for local authorities and we should close the petition. Yes?
Happy with that?
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[29]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes.
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[30]
P-04-445, ‘Save Our Welsh Cats & Dogs From Death on the
Roads’, which has been going on for three years. The Deputy
Minister’s letter and the study enclosed with it suggest that
there is little likelihood of policy being changed in the near
future. So, we can either write to the Minister again or close the
petition.
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[31]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
I suggest we close the
petition.
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[32]
Mike Hedges: Right. Is that agreed? Yes.
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[33]
P-04-544, ‘Ban the Shooting of Greenland White-fronted
Geese’; last considered on 19 January, when they wrote to the
Minister for Natural Resources. There was a reply on 15 March with
the details of the consultation. The petitioner was informed.
Somebody asked before the meeting about success stories; this is
essentially a success story. The Minister agreed to review the
current position based, at least in part, on the arguments put
forward through this petition. So, I think that this is an example
of petitions working. So, shall we close the petition and pat our
predecessors on the back? Yes?
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[34]
P-04-547, ‘Ban Polystyrene (EPS) Fast Food and Drinks
Packaging’; this goes back—. It was last considered on
2 February.
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[35]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
I’d like to sign this.
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[36]
Mike Hedges: They agreed to await the reviews of the
petitioners, write to the Minister for Natural Resources and share
the information received from Oxford City Council. The then
Minister for Natural Resources responded to the committee and his
letter is in the public papers. We’ve not received any
further views from the petitioners. It’s had extensive
consideration by the previous committee, including taking evidence
from the petitioner. The petitioner indicated that Oxford City
Council was an example of where such a ban had been implemented.
Information from Oxford City Council, however, was there was no
ban, although some restrictions, which were not just on EPS, had
been considered for a small number of traders. The
committee’s legal advisers have provided a note on the
Assembly’s legal competence and other background papers,
which is in the meeting papers as a private paper. What do we want
to do? We’ve had the Minister’s reply. It could be
argued that we’ve taken it as far as we can.
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[37]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Chairman, can I just make a comment on
this?
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[38]
Mike Hedges: Please.
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[39]
Janet Finch-Saunders
continues: If anybody does
take up beach cleaning, as I quite frequently do, they will be
aware of the amount of polystyrene litter that we’re finding
on our beaches and, indeed, our streets. I’m just a little
bit concerned that the Minister says here that the data on
polystyrene litter are very limited and, as a consequence, it was
difficult to assess the scale of the problem across Wales. You
don’t need to be a rocket scientist to realise that we do
have a problem with polystyrene containers on beaches and, as I
said, around our more urban areas. Is it possible that we can write
to the new Minister now to reiterate our concerns and see whether
they would be prepared to work with the Marine Conservation
Society—the MCS—and other environmental bodies? Because
those data are out there.
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[40]
Mike Hedges: We could, if we agree it.
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[41]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
You know, we’re talking about
tonnes here.
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[42]
Mike Hedges: There’s at least one person nodding at this
stage. Do we want to take that up? Yes?
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[43]
Mr George: Can I just point out that, in the Minister’s
letter, it does say that he’s agreed—it was
‘he’ at that time—to the commissioning of a joint
research project with the Marine Conservation Society and Swansea
University to look into this and other matters.
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[44]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
But it’ll be a new Minister,
won’t it? It might not have gone forward, so it would be
really good to just—
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[45]
Mike Hedges: If we don’t do anything else, can we just ask
for an update on that?
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[46]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes. That’ll be fine.
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[47]
Mike Hedges: They’ve agreed to do something; can they give
us an update on it?
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[48]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
But if we could stress in the letter that
the data collection is important, because without data collection,
you don’t have the evidence to actually then look at
resourcing ways to solve the problem.
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[49]
Mike Hedges: Yes.
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[50]
Janet Finch-Saunders: Thank
you, everyone.
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[51]
Mike Hedges: Thank you. Is everybody happy with that?
Yes?
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[52]
P-04-572, ‘Grants for Flood
Resilience’; that was from 8 March 2016, when they were
awaiting a response from Natural Resources Wales, and asked the
incoming environment committee to consider the issues, and asked
the incoming committee to consider carrying out a piece of work
itself on the issue raised by the petition. What do we want to do?
Perhaps ask the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs
Committee to note the issues raised by the petition and consider it
in their forward work programme.
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[53]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes, definitely.
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[54]
Mike Hedges: Health, well-being and sport; P-04-440, ‘Say NO to Asset Stripping Bronllys
Hospital’. This was from 20 January 2015, when they wrote to
the chief executive of Powys Teaching Local Health Board.
There’s been an update from Powys teaching health board. This
petition has been going for four years. The health board has
indicated they are in regular discussion with the petitioner, and
it may be that the matter is best taken forward as a local matter.
At the end of the day, it’s going to be decided by the local
health board.
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[55]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes; I don’t think there’s
more work we can do on this, really.
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[56]
Mike Hedges: Shall we close it and let them carry on talking? If
the talks break down, perhaps we might want to get involved again,
but as long as they keep on talking, progress could be made.
Okay?
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[57]
P-04-553, ‘A full and independent
investigation in to the health risks of wireless and mobile phone
technologies in Wales including all schools’. It was on 19
January that it was considered. There’s the response we had
from the Minister for Health and Social Services. They’ve had
a response and, in light of the Minister’s letter, can we
close the petition? Yes?
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[58]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Just on that, though, before you
do—sorry, Chairman—it says here,
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[59]
‘I can confirm the additional
information provided by the petitioner was forwarded to the Public
Health England Centre for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental
Hazards (PHECRCE).’
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[60]
But we don’t know what the response
was.
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[61]
Mr George: To explain, the petitioner has provided a lot of
information, which we’ve asked the Minister to put before the
organisation that advises both the Welsh Government and, I think,
the UK Government on these matters, and that’s what the
Minister has said that he’s done. So, all the information the
petitioner’s provided has now gone to this body. It was a lot
of information.
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[62]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
It’d be nice to have a response from them as to whether
it’s actually identified any issues that they are now going
to be taking forward to solve. Could we not send them a letter?
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[63]
Mr George: We can do
that.
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[64]
Mike Hedges: I think Janet raises an important point: we receive
petitions, we send them on to the Minister, the Minister sends them
on to somewhere else, the Minister then is progressing it, but we
don’t complete the circle by us finding out exactly
what’s happened at the end of it. It might be worthwhile,
once a year, having a go-back check, and saying, ‘Well, this
has gone off to these organisations; is it now fully
resolved?’
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[65]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
They may not have responded, or they
could have responded with a really good answer, and then the
petitioner feels confidence in what they’ve carried out.
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09:15
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[66]
Mike Hedges: Sort of mopping up once a year on things that have
gone off.
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[67]
P-04-564, ‘Restoration of Inpatient
Beds, Minor Injuries Cover and X-Ray Unit to the Ffestiniog
Memorial Hospital’; this was done on 19 January, when the
petitioner’s comments were shared with the Minister. The then
Minister for health has responded. The paper also comments on the
Minister’s letter. What do you want to do? The
Minister’s response indicates that he continues to believe
that concerns need to be resolved locally.
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[68]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
How long has this one been out,
again?
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[69]
Mike Hedges: 17 June 2014.
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[70]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
I know there’s a lot of passion
behind this particular petition, by the very nature of, you
know—because there is a feeling, I mean, it’s not my
patch, but I know there is a huge feeling that there is
insufficient inpatient beds and minor injuries cover. And then, of
course, they are not happy with the response that they had from the
health Secretary, or Minister, at the time. Could we perhaps,
again, just ask the new Minister for some update on whether he has
got any plans to address the concerns raised?
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[71]
Mike Hedges: Yes. Everybody happy with that?
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[72]
P-04-663, ‘Food in Welsh
Hospitals’; the committee considered the petition on 19
January. The Minister for Health and Social Services, seeking a
response to the petitioner’s comments; the local health
board, seeking their views on the issue—. A response has been
received from the then Minister for Health and Social Services, and
six local health boards, and available in the public papers.
We’ve had comprehensive responses. And that’s a
question that I perhaps should have asked before the meeting. I
know that the Auditor General for Wales has done substantial work
on food in hospitals. Are we able to make this petition available
to the auditor general?
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[73]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes, and can I just say on this
one—? It is a difficult issue, really, because with coeliacs
and people who have particular issues, it is a bit of a
one-size-fits-all. My father’s in hospital at the moment, and
it’s just—the menu is the menu. And I know that this
was put forward by the journalist, who’s now been withdrawn,
Rachel Flint, who herself had some issues in hospital. They
literally—she couldn’t eat while she was in hospital
because they didn’t have anything on the menu that would be
able to sustain her dietary needs, which were quite
complex.
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[74]
Mike Hedges: Yes, but the Auditor General has done some
substantial work on this.
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[75]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes, but—
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[76]
Mike Hedges: No, it really is—if we’re going to try
and take this forward, I would suggest the Auditor General, who has
done work on this, who has done follow-up work on this, might be
the best person to keep on going.
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[77]
Mr George: And, in terms of the individual, I mean, one of the
things that has come through from this is that there’s been
meetings arranged between the petitioner and the health board, and
I think the health board has accepted that they didn’t meet
Ms Flint’s dietary needs on this occasion. So, I think there
was an exceptional circumstance—
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[78]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
That’s an individual case though,
isn’t it? There could be people across Wales having the same
worries and the same concerns. And so, it may have been addressed
for one individual, but there is a bigger issue here.
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[79]
Mike Hedges: Very much so. Can we refer this information on to the
auditor general, who’s doing work on it at the
moment?
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[80]
Gareth Bennett:
Why is it the auditor general’s
field?
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[81]
Mike Hedges: Because he does value-for-money works on different
places, and there are problems with variation in cost, and
variation in wastage, which are more substantial than you would
expect—substantially more than you would expect. I mean, in
some hospitals, if you went into hospital today, you’d have
the food that the person who was in that bed yesterday ordered,
whether you wanted it or not, and things like that. It’s very
regimented. Some places allow—as they all
should—relatives to help, mainly the elderly and infirm, to
eat. Others throw the relatives out, and some just put the food
next to the patient, and then half an hour, they take it away,
without actually taking any interest in whether their patient has
eaten any of it or not. It’s that sort of
thing—that’s why it falls under the auditor general.
Okay?
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[82]
P-04-668, ‘Support Yearly Screening
for Ovarian Cancer (CA125 blood test)’; this was in February
2016. They’ve written to the Minister for Health and Social
Services, and the Minister has responded. The petitioner
also submitted detailed comments on the then Minister’s
response, which are available in the public papers. The options
are: do we want to do some work on it or do we want to ask the
Health, Social Care and Sport Committee to look at the
petition?
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[83]
Janet Finch-Saunders: Yes, that would be a good idea.
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[84]
Mike Hedges: I would strongly urge that we do a piece of
work on it. We’ve not picked up any of the other petitions up
until now, so we have got an opportunity to get the petitioner and
the Minister in to discuss it. And I think it is a matter of public
concern. Yes? Are we happy with that? Yes.
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[85]
Economy and Infrastructure: P-04-446, ‘Business Rate Relief
for Welsh Charity Shops’. We discussed the petition on 4
February. The then Minister for the Economy, Science and Transport
set out the latest position. We have not received any response from
the petitioner. It’s been under consideration for three
years. I think—and I look to be contradicted by
somebody—this was when the Minister was considering making
charity shops pay rates. That threat has now disappeared, but it
did concern a large number of charity shops, especially the larger
ones, so I think we can—. The Minister backed down or
didn’t take that forward, whichever way you prefer to look at
it, and that hasn’t happened. So, could we close the
petition? That could be seen as a success.
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[86]
P-04-468, ‘Road Safety Concerns A48 Chepstow’: first
considered 19 March 2013. It’s been open for three years. So,
what we’re going to do—. It’s been open for three
years; it was last considered 19 January. They wrote to the
Minister for Economy, Science and Transport. A response was
received, this has been sent to the petitioner, but the petitioner
has not responded. That was sent on 19 or 20 January.
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[87]
Mr George: Yes. The petitioner in this case is actually the
local town council, effectively. It does mean that, because they
have to meet and all the rest of it, they sometimes are a bit a
slow in responding, so—.
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[88]
Mike Hedges: Every town council that I know meets at least
monthly.
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[89]
Mr George: I think the issue here, really, was that this
actually has had quite a lot of correspondence going back and forth
and the response from the Minister seems to indicate, you know,
that’s as far as they’re going to take it. It’s
really whether the committee can add anything further at this
point.
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[90]
Mike Hedges: Well, can we close the petition now? Because I
think that they will have met in February, March—possibly not
April. They will have certainly met in May and June. They’ve
had four opportunities to meet. If they haven’t come back to
us, we’re keeping something alive that they’re not. But
can we note it?
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[91]
P-04-539, ‘Save Cardiff Coal Exchange’: well,
that’s been going around since—. Considered on 2
February; it’s been going on for a long time. I’m
trying to find the original date—11 March 2014. The
petitioner responded and asked that the transcript of a House of
Commons debate led by Stephen Doughty be drawn to this
committee’s attention. The committee’s had it under
consideration for some time. Another action: the previous committee
visited the Coal Exchange to see its condition. However—. I
assume Neil’s going to be able to help us with this. However,
much of the petitioner’s concern is about the action of
Cardiff city council and the committee will note the local Member
of Parliament also voiced some concerns in the House of Commons
debate. Later information from the then Minister was that the city
council were considering a number of opportunities for the
exchange, including private commercial investment. However, the
Minister also felt the matter is the council’s responsibility
and it would be inappropriate for her to comment further.
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[92]
Mr George: Can I just—? I should explain that
petitions are not admissible if they’re about the operational
decisions of local authorities. The reason this particular petition
was allowed was because of the role that the Welsh Government has,
via Cadw, in listing buildings and so forth and so on. But it does
rather get into local authority matters.
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[93]
Neil McEvoy: I think it was more the propriety of what
they’ve done, rather than the operational decisions.
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[94]
Mike Hedges: We’ve got two choices, or three choices:
we can either close the petition, we can ask the Secretary for
Economy and Infrastructure and the leader of the council to give
oral evidence, or we can ask them to give a written update, which
is what I would prefer at the moment. When we have a written
update, then we could, if we so wished, ask them in. I don’t
know where it is at the moment, but the last thing I
heard—again, I look to be contradicted by people who know
more about it than I do—is that somebody was looking to take
it over to do something with it. So, that may well turn out to be a
success.
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[95]
P-04-594, ‘Cilmeri Community Council Appeal for The Prince
Llywelyn Monument’, 23 September 2014, last considered 8
March. Response from the Minister for Economy, Science and
Transport—this has been sent to the petitioner, but no
response has been received from them. What do we want to do? The
Minister says that the matter appears to be resolved
satisfactorily.
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[96]
Mr George: I think those are probably my words, rather than
the Minister’s. The Minister’s then officials were in
the process of considering proposals for new signs to signpost the
monument, which is what the local council were after.
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[97]
Mike Hedges: What can we ask them? Can we just write to the
Minister and ask what’s happened? If the signs are in, then
we can—. This could be another success.
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[98]
P-04-667, ‘Roundabout for the
A477/A4075 Junction’: Pembroke Town Council submitted it;
considered on 19 January 2016. We’ve written to the Minister
for Economy, Science and Transport. The Minister responded and
we’ve had a response from the petitioners to it.
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[99]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
As you said, this again is more for the
budget-setting priorities of the local authority, and maybe we
could close it.
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[100]
Mr George: The reason that petitions are allowed on particular
roads is because they’re major trunk roads, so they’re
a responsibility of the Welsh Government.
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[101]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes, of course.
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[102]
Mike Hedges: Well, the previous Minister’s response
indicated that this matter would be taken forward through a stage 4
road safety audit and the petitioner’s view will be taken
into account. Can we write and ask where we are with it?
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[103]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes, ask for an update.
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[104]
Mike Hedges: Ask for an update. Everybody happy with
that?
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[105] P-04-678,
‘Infirm Supports’: considered
on 23 February 2016, when it was first considered. What action do
you want to take? The petitioners appear content. The petitioner
has raised awareness of the issue and, prompted by the Minister,
she has previously received a full response from the Community
Transport Association, which addressed a number of her concerns. It
looks like another success, so, can we close it? Okay.
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[106] P-04-658,
‘The Brimmon Oak’: first
considered 8 December 2015, last considered 23 February 2016.
We’ve had further comments from the petitioners and
we’ve had a reply from the Cabinet Secretary and previous
assurance that the Brimmon Oak appears to be saved. So,
they’ve actually achieved what they wanted, which is saving
the Brimmon Oak. So, can we close the petition?
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[107] P-04-637,
‘To Protect the Future of Youth
Music in Wales’: last considered 8 March, when it was agreed
to write to the WJEC seeking an outstanding response to previous
correspondence, to write to the WLGA to seek information on how
local authorities are taking matters forward, and to write to the
Minister to ask him to respond to petitioners’ further
comments. A response was received from the Minister for Education
and Skills as well as the WLGA; both are available in the public
pack. No response has been received from the WJEC. We’ve had
comprehensive responses. I will say publicly I’m hugely
disappointed that WJEC has not responded. I would suggest that we
write back to them and ask them again.
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[108]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Yes.
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[109]
Mike Hedges: I think a body that is funded substantially through
public money should respond to letters from us.
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[110]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Absolutely right.
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[111]
Mike Hedges: They might not like it and they might send us a
letter back we don’t like, but I think we’ve got a
right to expect to be treated with respect and get a response. So,
can we remind them they haven’t responded and then we can
deal with it at that time?
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[112] P-04-655,
‘Demanding our Rights for the Welsh
Language in the Private Sector’, from Cymdeithas yr Iaith, 17
November 2015. Last considered 2 February 2016. The Welsh Language
Commissioner’s and the First Minister’s views have been
sought. The Communities, Equality and Local Government Committee
have recently taken oral evidence from the commissioner on this
point and we asked them to take into account the petitioner’s
comments. We received a response from the First Minister, the Welsh Language
Commissioner and the former Chair of the Communities, Equality and
Local Government Committee, all of which are available in the pack.
In view of what responses we’ve received and the
recommendation of CELG, close the petition, yes?
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09:30
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[113] Janet
Finch-Saunders: Yes.
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[114] Mike
Hedges: Yes.
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[115] P-04-660,
‘Additional Pressures on Funding for Education Provision
Faced by Sparsely Populated Areas’, last considered 8 March,
write to the Minister—sorry, I’ll start again. The
committee last considered it and they decided to write to the
Minister asking for his comments and to forward details of the
petition to the committee tasked with scrutinising the local
government Wales Bill when it is introduced so that they can take
the issues raised into consideration. A response has been received
from the former Minister for Education and Skills. The petition was
also forwarded to the clerk of the Communities, Equality and Local
Government Committee, but, as a responsible committee has only
recently been established, no response is available. I think that
this has fallen into the crack of the election and us reforming
committees. I would think that the petition is about a general
issue of local authority funding—we are aware that the
petitioners have specific concerns about a local school and the
situation it faces. Given this, and the response from the Minister,
we can either close the petition or write to the education Minister
and the finance Minister asking them to consider it in terms of the
next budget.
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[116] Janet
Finch-Saunders: Yes, I agree. Or is it—
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[117] Mike
Hedegs: So, we’ll send it to them and ask them to
consider it. They take advice and take correspondence from
different organisations on the budget. This could be part of the
budget process. So, it goes to the committee and the two Ministers.
Is that okay?
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[118] Mr
George: Sorry, to the finance—
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[119] Mike
Hedges: The Finance Committee and the two Ministers.
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[120] P-04-677,
‘Equal Access to Welsh Language’, submitted 23 February
2016, considered on 23 February: a response from the former
Minister for education has been received and is available in the
public pack. I think the response, again, is a very positive one.
So, shall we close the petition? I’m not sure some of these
are successes as petitions, but they’re certainly successes
on what the petitioners want.
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[121] Janet
Finch-Saunders: Yes.
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[122] Neil
McEvoy: I’m not sure if it was too successful really,
because—[Inaudible.] We don’t know what the
outcome of them looking at it is.
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[123] Mike
Hedges: Well, shall we ask them to respond when they’ve
looked into it?
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[124] Neil
McEvoy: Yes, I think so.
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[125] Mike
Hedges: Yes, I think you’re right there. You can look
into it. That can be what, as someone who’s served on local
governments, is known as a holding
response—‘We’re going to look at
it’—and what it means is that it’ll keep you
happy for a few months and, hopefully, you’ll forget about
it.
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[126] P-04-656,
‘Establishing a Conscientious Objectors Day in Wales’,
last considered 19 January: a response has been received from the
First Minister and the former Presiding Officer. Both responses
have been sent to the petitioners for their comments. No response
has been received as yet. When did they go to the petitioners?
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[127] Mr
George: I’m not sure, but it would have been—
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[128] Mike
Hedges: In January?
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[129] Mr
George: January or February.
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[130] Mike
Hedges: So they’ve had four or five—
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[131] Janet
Finch-Saunders: If they haven’t come back—
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[132] Mike
Hedges: If they haven’t come back then I suggest we close
it. If you give people an opportunity to come back and they
don’t come back within three months, I would always close
it.
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[133] P-04-661,
‘Prohibit Online Use and Electronic Voting by Assembly
Members in the Senedd Chamber’: considered on 19 January and
it was agreed to forward the petitioners’ comments to the
Presiding Officer and the Assembly Commission to seek their views.
A response has been received from the former Presiding Officer and
is available in the public pack. The response has also been
forwarded to the petitioners but no response has been received as
yet.
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[134] I think,
probably, it’s an educational issue. One of the reasons we
vote electronically is because you can then record
everybody’s vote accurately. If we did it by show of hands,
you could lose something in accuracy and you’re relying on
people to count. Many of us have been in meetings where counting
has seemed to be different to the number of hands that have gone
up. So, it is really important that we have a public record of how
everybody votes on every occasion. So, I don’t think, unless
you had a division lobby, which would add a substantial amount of
time to the amount of time we took for voting, then I think it
really is important that we do have that opportunity to let
everybody know how we vote so we can be held accountable for how we
vote.
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[135]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
In terms of transparency and
accountability, it’s a good way forward.
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[136]
Mike Hedges: So, shall we close the petition? Yes.
P-04-674, ‘Say No to
Dyfed’—the petition was first considered on 23
February. Can we hold the petition, rather than close it? At the
moment, I understand the Minister’s view is that of not
making the substantial changes the previous Minister considered,
but can we hold that petition until such time that another set of
local government proposals come forward? It just saves them
resubmitting it. I mean, I don’t think that Dyfed is likely
to come back under the current Minister, but I also know the
current Minister will not be the Minister forever, so if it does
come back we’ve got it held then ready. Is that okay with
everybody? Okay.
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[137] P-04-684,
‘We Demand Better more Effective
Welsh HMO Planning Laws and a New Use Classes
Order’—this petition was collected in Swansea and had
11 signatures. It was considered for the first time on 8 March. It
was agreed to write to the Minister asking him to respond. The then
Minister responded and his response is available in the public
papers. There has been recent legislation in this area. This is
very much a sort of Swansea, Cardiff, Treforest, Bangor,
Aberystwyth situation, where you have a university and you have
lots of houses in multiple occupation clustered in certain areas. I
know the petitioner and I can understand the petitioner’s
frustration with where we are, but there is legislation and I think
we can write to the—. Have we written to the petitioner
telling him about the legislation, and directing him to
it?
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[138]
Mr George: He would have received the Minister’s
letter.
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[139]
Mike Hedges: Okay, fine. Everybody happy to close the petition
then? Can I just remind people about the petition handovers at
12.40 p.m., 1 o’clock and 2.30 p.m.? And I hope we can do our
utmost to attend as many of these petition handovers as possible; I
think it’s appreciated by the petitioners, but I think if we
are intending to be a public-facing committee, then I think it
really is important that we do go out there and meet with people.
Sorry, Neil, you were going to say something.
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[140]
Neil McEvoy: One o’clock may be difficult because I’ve
arranged to meet somebody, but the other one,
definitely.
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[141]
Mike Hedges: Okay, that’s fine. I think we’ll rarely
get all four of us available at any one time for all these things,
but I think it is important that there are representatives of this
committee, and, can I just say, it doesn’t have to be me? If
I’m not available and other members of the committee are
available—. And also, for Janet probably more than anybody
else, if it helps people to hand it over in north Wales to Janet, I
would have no problem—and somebody else has
nodded—rather than making somebody from Llandudno come down
here to hand a petition in—
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[142]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
They could do it in the Assembly
building.
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[143]
Mike Hedges: You could do it in the Assembly building in
Llandudno, so that people can hand it in, because we’re an
Assembly for the whole of Wales, not the whole of Cardiff, and it
is important that people do realise that. So, if people want to
hand a petition in in north Wales, if Janet could collect them,
would that be okay?
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[144]
Mr George: No problem at all.
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[145]
Mike Hedges: And you’re okay with that, Janet?
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[146]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
Happy to do that, yes.
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[147]
Gareth Bennett:
Chair, which ones are being collected
today?
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[148]
Mike Hedges: The Raglan one, the one regarding rally driving in
the forests and somebody can help me with what the other one
is.
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[149]
Mr George: The Kidwelly railway station.
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[150]
Mike Hedges: The Kidwelly railway station.
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[151]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
And what time and where do they
meet?
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[152]
Mike Hedges: At 12.40 p.m., 1 o’clock and 2.30 p.m., and
they’ll be either just inside or just outside, on the first
floor.
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[153]
Janet Finch-Saunders:
On the Senedd steps?
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[154]
Mike Hedges: Yes.
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[155]
Mr George: We’ve sent you a diary request so Hannah will
be aware of it.
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[156]
Gareth Bennett:
Which one is the rallying one? What time
is that?
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[157]
Mr George: At 12.40 p.m.
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[158]
Mike Hedges: Okay. The next meeting will be on 13 September. Can I
just say: can people make themselves available early in the morning
and at lunch time on the thirteenth in case we get any petitions
over summer? And after that, then, it should calm down a bit. Okay,
thank you very much.
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Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 09:40.
The meeting ended at 09:40.
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